Talk:List of collectible card games

	Games portal This article is part of WikiProject Board and table games, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to board games and tabletop games. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Board and table gamesWikipedia:WikiProject Board and table gamesTemplate:WikiProject Board and table gamesboard and table game articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

[[Fullmetal Alchemist#Other|Fullmetal Alchemist Trading Card Game]] The anchor (#Other) is no longer available because it was deleted by a user before.

Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Games removed from the list

Pirates of the Spanish Main

What definition of Collectible Card Games makes you so sure that PSM isn't a CCG? Wouter Lievens 09:25, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The one that says "you play the game with cards". Punch-outs are not card games. -- Netoholic @ 15:42, 2005 Feb 3 (UTC)

Half of the game is about the cards. They contain the stats of the ships and the crew. There is also the aspect of secret cards because some crew and/or treasure can be hidden from other players. Also, the creators market it as a CCG. Wouter Lievens 18:11, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Look at their rules section. A lot of miniatures games (D&D comes to mind) have cards that display stats. They are not CCGs. In this case, the creators package it somewhat like a CCG, and market it to the CCG crowd, but it is still not a CCG. -- Netoholic @ 18:26, 2005 Feb 3 (UTC)

Is Ani-Mayhem! a CCG? In what ways does its board-game-style position-based gameplay, which deviates from standard CCGs just as much as Pirates, include it but exclude Pirates? (see also: Talk:Pirates of the Spanish Main) --Boco XLVII 21:42, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

CCG's often use a special layout on the playing surface. Until the Ani-Mayhem! guys start cutting apart their cards and building little ships, though, this has nothing to do with Pirates. -- Netoholic @ 22:26, 2005 Feb 3 (UTC)

So your issue is with dimensionality of cards? M:tG Unglued has cards that require they be torn into pieces. Does that make it not a CCG? (what I'm trying to get from you is a definition of CCG) --Boco XLVII 22:38, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This conversation is honestly getting stupid. You want a definition, go read collectible card game - I wrote quite a bit of it. -- Netoholic @ 00:46, 2005 Feb 4 (UTC)

From that page I see that the only rule being violated is the lack of card drawing; all cards begin in play and can later be removed or re-added. About half of the cards in play are face-down, though, and those are randomly located - Explore is the equivalent of a Draw action. Every other rule of being a CCG is followed. I suggest you either improve the linked article (not to say it is poorly written, just to say that it is unclear on a definition of CCG, especially one in which this game is not included) or say something relevant. --Boco XLVII 04:52, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The reason this is not a CCG is because this is a miniatures game. The game is played with miniatures. They are stored on cards, but the cards themselves hove no game value other than reference. Therefore, the game is no played with cards; it is not a CCG.

Dragon Storm

Dragon Storm (Black Dragon Press) [1]

This is a role-playing game that uses cards extensively, but is not a collectible card game. The players make a big deal about that. -- Netoholic @ 07:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds a lot like a technicality or politics, but it is not a CCG as defined by the definition of a collectible card game, correct?

CC & SH Universe

CC & SH Universe (CC & SH Games)

No source information, I can find nothing about it. -- Netoholic @ 07:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy

As far as I can tell, these are card games, but non-collectible (sold as a set). -- Netoholic @ 07:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Final Fantasy VIII is packaged in boosters of 10 cards each. Cards are numbered for collectibility. Final Fantasy VIII is not sold as a set, but Final Fantasy IX is.

Super Nova

Super Nova (Buccaneer Games) [2]

Players draw off a shared deck of cards. -- Netoholic @ 07:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This does not invalidate this game as being a CCG under the definition of a collectible card game. Nowhere in the definition does it say players have different decks. The game is packaged as a CCG, and is collectible in the same manner. Therefore, this should be a CCG by the current definition.

Battle Cards

Battle Cards (Steve Jackson Games/Merlin)

Mechanically not much like a CCG. Steve Jackson Games got a lot of ears talking about how this was out before Magic, but may be a bit of historical revisionism? Here is a gameplay description]. -- Netoholic @ 07:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Cardmaster Conflict

Cardmaster Conflict [3]

Someone's personal programming project. -- Netoholic @ 20:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Sandwich Shop

Sandwich Shop (CCG Workshop LLC)

Not a notable commercial release. -- Netoholic @ 20:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Top Trumps

Top Trumps (Winning Moves)

Shared deck, no more a CCG than UNO. -- Netoholic @ 20:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Base Ball Card Game

Base Ball Card Game (The Allegheny Card Co.)

Need a source for the game rules, but likely a fantasy baseball variant. -- Netoholic @ 20:17, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Topps FantaSports

Topps FantaSports (The Topps Company, Inc.)

Need a source for the game rules, but likely a fantasy football variant. -- Netoholic @ 10:07, 8 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mystick: Domination

Mystick: Domination (Anoch Game Systems) (possibly non-collectible)

Mystick is a Customizable game, but comes in two set decks that you can mix. No collectibility on this game at all. -- Century

http://www.wuxiapian.com/ and http://www.animalherders.com/ links to some crap instead of actual CCG. spam?

Wakfu

This game does not appear to ever have been published in English. Siliconcrusader (talk) 05:01, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alteil

|Alteil ||2004||?||No |-

Alteil is a DCCG --Squeezums (talk) 17:48, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It may have been a DCCG, but the source provided showed a CCG as well. Leitmotiv (talk) 20:29, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The archived source doesn't seem to indicate the game to be a physical card game, and the pictured cards are too low quality to determine if it is a picture of physical or digital cards. In researching for any supporting source, I have been unable to find any reference of a physical game aside from the game being listed in the (now defunct) source. Even the game's article calls Alteil an online CCG. Even if this game does exist in a physical format, I think a more concrete source has to be found before the game can be included in the list. --Squeezums (talk) 20:54, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've continued searching and found a store listing a booster pack. My apologies for posting so shortly before finding a hit. I will be updating the list reference with this new link although it is unfortunately not very descriptive of the game. Hopefully we can find another better reference in the future. --Squeezums (talk) 21:03, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that source is not the best, but it was exhaustive - with pictures of the cards. I was never able to list all the CCGs they had on that website. I got to the letter C or D and stopped. They had a lot of Japanese CCGs, which will undoubtedly be much harder to verify in English speaking countries, such as mine. The site is defunct now, and to my knowledge, there's no way of pulling up the remaining ones I never got to listing on this article. And there were a lot! This list article would have easily doubled in size.

For the record, the photos at web archive, show a 9-card page holder for Alteil. I definitely see physical cards in a 9-card page holder, so definitely not DCCG per that archived source. I think Japan companies made a lot of quick one-offs as flavors of the year - so there is likely tons of these CCGs that aren't documented in English speaking countries. Leitmotiv (talk) 21:20, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've managed to find the archived homepage of the library used for so many of these sources. Thankfully, it seems like most of the library has been archived intact. I will put a link to the archived library right here (http://web.archive.org/web/20181105113929/http://www.geocities.jp/lib_gov/tcg/tcg_lib_index.html). I've tested a few random entries and all seem to have been archived completely. I am very optimistic that the entire library is archived safely. Hopefully we can work together to continue to pull more games onto this list.--Squeezums (talk) 22:43, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hey that's what I was trying to look for! Thanks very much. I thought it only archived the pages that Wikipedia had linked to around the time I did my 2018 updates. Glad to see that's not the case. It's a lot to work through, but I will eventually get to it with my other projects that are non-Wikipedia related. I believe the trouble I had before was determining which of these sets were core games and not just expansions of another core game. You see, there are some games that have a core game system that is referred to in a round about way, but the expansions appear as if they're their own thing, but instead all use the core gaming system and can be used with the other expansions. You will see this in the form of IPs, like the Street Fighter card game, or The SNK card game, but both use the same rules and can be used together under some core base game that has it's own separate name - and it is the core game that should receive the only mention, though it could have a footnote stating all the expansions. Leitmotiv (talk) 00:49, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

One more set of good news to share. I reached out to the owner of that site. It turns out, the owner did re-host the website at a different host. He said that he has not updated it recently, but he still plans to in the future. Here is the link to the un-archived, currently running webstite (http://libgov.starfree.jp/index.html). And here is the link directly to the TCG library (http://libgov.starfree.jp/tcg/tcg_lib_index.html). Given that resources can be hard to find for this subject (especially for Japanese games) should we potentially create a location at the top of the talk page for listing some of the really useful, but harder to find resources? -Squeezums (talk) 15:01, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Other computer / console games as CCGs

I'm not sure if they're close enough to put on the list, but the following games are based at least partially on mechanics that closely resemble CCGs:

69.85.162.195 21:52, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a very difficult line to draw. In some cases one has to make a distinction based on whether the game actually revolves around cards, or just uses cards as a mechanic. For example, Baten Kaitos uses cards for item collection, for quests, and for combat. Yet, the cards are just a mechanic, they're not actually the sole activity in the game. Even so, there will undoubtedly be individuals with different opinions on the subject. -- Slordak 16:19, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly is considered an "actively supported" CCG?

There are only three games listed there, but there are still far far more in production, actively supporting and actively played, unless of course there are some set guidelines detailing exactly what "actively" means, but I do not see these anywhere on the page -- so, what exactly is an "actively supported" CCG? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Josh7289 (talk • contribs) 00:32, 19 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

That portion was removed from the page. While it is a good idea, it would have to be defined in order to be useful. -- Century

I think it would be useful, however, to note each game in the list that has been officially discontinued by the manufacturer. I'm not talking about making a separate section, but just a note or something by the name of each discontinued game. I think something like this leaves no room for ambiguity, and could be pretty useful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Josh7289 (talk • contribs) 01:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

There are many games that have not been officially discontinued, but are obviously not being supported. It's hard to differentiate there. Then again, there are CCGs like Buffy The Vampire Slayer that are supported by fans, but not the manufacturer. --Century 02:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Garbage Pale Kids

Is there a known page for the "Garbage Pale Kids" collection? If so, why is it not on the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.1.28.249 (talk) 21:14, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are we talking about the old Garbage Pail Kids from the 1980s? If so, while collectible, they aren't used to actually play a game as defined in the primary article on the subject. This list is a list of collectible card games, not a list of collectible cards (e.g. baseball cards) or collectible products in general. --Slordak 16:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

bobobo trading card game

there was also a not well known bobobo trading card game.I'll have a source up soon.

Alphabetical Listing

I added an alphabetical listing. I know nothing about Trading Card Games. My seven year old boy is interested, and I am trying to learn. The essential purpose of Wikipedia is to imform the ignorant. Those of us ignorant about Treding Card Games need an alphabetical listing, as the only thing we are likely to know is the name of the game.

Is there something about these games that invalidates my thinking? Nwbeeson 14:12, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, but the distinction between physical card games (games where one owns the actual pieces of card stock), virtual games (games where one "owns" virtual representations of cards), and video games which merely simulate this activity is very important. I would propose 3 separate sortable tables, one for each of these. With both the release date and title included, one could then sort them as desired. --Slordak 14:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think alphabetical listings would be more useful than the current sortings, and I also agree that the three separate groups should be maintained. Once it's complete, I'd have the older lists removed, as otherwise it's just duplication of information. -masa ♫ 15:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Collectible vs. Collectable

Please note that there are two accepted spellings of this word and different companies have used different spellings. Please leave them as they are. --Century 23:32, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Never released in USA

What about those Trading Card Games what hasn't been released in USA? --Szente (talk) 21:30, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

CCGs list as Sorted Table?

Wouldn't it be better to have the list of CCGs in a user-sortable table? This would remove the redundancy of having seperate alphabetical and date-sorted sections, and would make it easier to access the information. Thomasdav26 (talk) 20:21, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

resorting the T section

If no one objects, I'm going to resort the T section. Most the titles starting with "The" such as "The X-Files" should be relisted in their proper section, such a X for The X-Files. The new listing for the X-Files would read: "X-Files, The." When sorting alphabetically and the first word is "the" you should always alphabetize by the second word. Leitmotiv (talk) 06:03, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Leitmotiv (talk) 23:17, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

English language games only?

Should this list include games which have only been available in a foreign language or only games which are/were published in English? -- Siliconcrusader (talk) 05:13, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Any language is fine, so long as you can verify through a language conversion site that it is indeed a CCG. Leitmotiv (talk) 15:21, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on List of collectible card games. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 21:27, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the list of online collectible card games?

The article says to see the section near the bottom, but I can’t find the section described. Papí • talk 06:23, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on List of collectible card games. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on List of collectible card games. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.romancingcathay.com/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.dragstarr.com/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://racialwars.eu/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/tmnt/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.warcardz.com/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://svsm.jp/
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/winxclub/
Replaced archive link https://web.archive.org/web/20010201062300/http://www.wizardintraining.com/ with https://web.archive.org/web/20010926140817/http://www.wizardintraining.com/ on http://www.wizardintraining.com/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 10:41, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Games to be investigated

PEZ Card Game

The references for this game are very week with the only non-wiki reference being the Scrye checklist. The description of the game seems to imply that the game is played with a shared deck rather than each player having their own deck. This deck does seems to be modified by blind booster packs, and the article does call the game a CCG so it may still qualify as a CCG. I'm not certain on the exact line drawn to define a CCG. --Squeezums (talk) 17:14, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The quick answer to your questioning of Pez, is that it's not for us to decide what is and what isn't a CCG. The sources we provide do. The two Scrye guides are pretty much the bible for all CCGs up to 2003. They are also the ones that defined having a common deck versus a personal deck, and they reviewed Pez as being a CCG and not a common deck game ("shared deck" in your words). If you're interested in any of these CCGs cited by Scrye, I recommend picking up the guide book. It's the best, with written descriptions on each CCG, pictures of the cards, and of course checklists. For old CCGs, it is the definitive source of information, and I don't regret picking up my copy - nothing else compares as it transcends being just a price guide.

As for what is defined as a CCG, that is heavily sourced on the main collectible card game page. Lot's of different sources, and heavily drawing from the Scrye guide. But suffice it to say, a game must be collectible through booster packs or some other method, and you can't buy the entire game in a small number of purchases. The game must also have some element of strategy to it. With that in mind, Pez meets the criteria. Common deck games don't qualify as CCGs because they're often sold as a complete set, lack the collectible aspect, and the lack of personalizing your own deck may decrease the elements of strategy and collecting. Another factor with collectibility being key, is that there are definitely prototype games of the past that resemble CCGs in some aspect, but for them to be collectible, they had to actually be released in order to be collected, which rules out The Base Ball Card Game by Alleghany (though it fails in other ways too). Leitmotiv (talk) 20:28, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Release dates

The introduction of the page states "Unless otherwise noted, all dates listed should be considered as the North American release date.". Hatalom Kártyái Kártyajáték and Kiválasztottak shows both of it's original Hungarian release, not the North American, I doubt any of them were released in NA to begin with. I've found an English site for HKK, but it was noted due to the massive amount of texts extensive translation is needed to become playable. I haven't found anything about an English version of M*K, and their webshop doesn't deliver outside Hungary at the moment, altough a week ago they noted they are planning EU distribution on their distributor's Facebook. That's why I added the "?" behind the release date, like some of the others have. 85.67.241.26 (talk) 07:39, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The linked cited can be translated by Google. It mentions in late 1994 they came up with the idea and released it in 1995. So the date is not in question. Probably what is needed is a footnote after 1995 stating it was released in Hungary. Leitmotiv (talk) 18:21, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've added footnotes to both HKK and M*K. I also took the Liberty change the order of publishers of M*K 97-99 Valhalla, 2000-2003 CCG Art, 2004-2014 Két Mágus (AKA "Unoffical Era"), 2014- Két Mágus does the productions and development, Delta Vision is the publisher, M*K is official again. 85.67.241.26 (talk) 07:38, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! Leitmotiv (talk) 16:44, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Robotech publisher

The Robotech CCG's publisher links to the Lego theme of the same name, not the page for the actual company. Any idea on how to solve this? (sorry, I'm new here.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.35.76.5 (talk) 18:52, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed! It appears there is no article for Hero Factory yet. Leitmotiv (talk) 18:57, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Best Sellers

there needs to be a section dedicated to worldwide sales. Obviously, Magic or Pokemon are going to be #1, but it would still be helpful, since a google search only shows you ranks based on the site's opinion.2601:346:C201:60C0:B5F2:DF40:9BD3:BCF2 (talk) 23:26, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That would be a whole new article. Wikipedia operates on cited sources, especially one composed of a list of sales. If you aren't finding anything on Google, chances are such an article is not possible at this time. I also believe most companies don't disclose sales/print runs. Either way, I think it would be a very short list: Magic, Pokemon, Yugioh, with a steep drop-off from there - a list is not very helpful. Leitmotiv (talk) 00:10, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Split "Non-collectible customizable card games"?

Isn't it a bit weird for a list of collectible card games to list non-collectible ones? List_of_collectible_card_games#Non-collectible_customizable_card_games. I suggest we split it, and perhaps create main article for the concept (right now it is discussed under Fantasy Flight Games#Living Card Games) which is hardly ideal; we need a name for the new article (I've seen living card game, expandable card game, and customizable card game, and there might be others... sigh). @Guinness323 @BOZ _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:58, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think "customizable card games" is a good generic title that covers a lot of bases. Guinness323 (talk) 07:21, 10 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Guinness323 My only concern would be OR - Wikipedia should not introduce new terms or try to popularize less common ones (see WP:COMMONNAME...). I think I will try to create the long overdue article on this type of games, but first I need to figure out the name for it. Living card game vs customizable card game vs expandable card game vs ? Note that our article at Collectible card game defines LCGs as a subset of customizable cgs, but I am not sure this is fully correct... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:09, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS. The "non-collectible" adjective/descriptor does not make much sense here either, you still collect cards, just not randomly. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:11, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update. This terms comes from the Scrye Guide, p. 684, Appendix D (link to IA in sections below). It is defined there as follows: "often mistaken for CCGs, Non-Collectible Customizable Card Games require each player to have his own deck, but have no randomness involved in the distribution of cards. Many are sold as complete sets, or as a few fixed starter decks. As random distribution is vital to the development of a trading dynamic and metagame, these don't qualify as CCGs. Some, in fact, were designed to evolve into CCgs through the later release of random booster packs - which never came out!" Scrye guide lists the following titles: Anime Madness (with a note that it was designed as a cCG, but all cards in it were available in a single starter, and planned expansions never materialized, so it is not "a true CCG"), Calorie Kids (only fixed starter decks were released, again, planned eplansiosn with boster packs never came out again), Heavy Gear Fighter , Knightmare Chess, Star Wars Episode 1 CCG Boxed Set, Tribbles: The Card Game . _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:51, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collectible common-deck card game - original research?

This was defined here in 2013 by @Leitmotiv and the related paragraph was added to CCG articles by that user as well, where later it was developed by @Masem and @Mindmatrix. First, I'll note that the paragraph at CCG page lists only one example: Munchkin, which is not listed here (it probably should be). My primary concern, however, is possible WP:OR. The concept of a "Collectible common-deck card game" is not used outside Wikipedia and few sites which might have copied our (Leitmotiv's?) idea. The term we probably should be using is Dedicated deck card game; but I am further concerned about slippery slope here - what is the difference between a dedicated deck card game and "Collectible common-deck card game"? Common deck and dedicated decks seem like identical concepts, so the only difference is the "collectible" part. And reviewing examples listed (Dragon Storm (game), Nuclear War (card game) and considering Munchkin (note that not a single of those has a reference that confirms the use of the term "Collectible common-deck card game") it seems that those are simply dedicated card games with expansions (which, presumably, you'd like to collect...). This might merit a section in dedicated card games article (it would be nice to have a reliable ref discussing such games as a group), but I am also worried about a slippery slope here, and calling many modern board games using cards and having expansions "collectible [something] card games". Consider Star Realms, which is a deckbuider that meets that definition (as there is a common draw pile that populates the market used by players to build their decks, in fact this is a common element of many deckbuilders...). But there are other games that don't have a deckbuilding element, like Boss Monster ([4]) and probably quite a few others - they have cards, they have expanions... sigh. And what we have, I fear, is a case of WP:OR. For now, I suggest deleting this section here as well as from the CCG article, perhaps copying it to Talk:Dedicated deck card game. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:56, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update. I've located this term in the cited source , but on another page (684): [5] It has the following note "there are many games which are occasionally mistaken for [or even advertised as] 'collectible card games," which do meet the definition described on page 14. They can be divided into several groupings. One such group is Collectible Common-Deck Card Games. These games do offer cards in random assortments, but do not require that each player play with his own deck. Without competetive customization of decks, no trading mechanism and metagame can develop, two of the hallmarks of the CCgs. It 's like adding a bunch of new face cards to a regular poker deck". Then they list Dino Hunt, Dragon Storm, Nuclear War and Super Nova. The good news is that this means the term is not Wiki-OR. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:44, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Another problematic section: Notable non-collectible games

As usual - notable according to whom? The cited source is Scrye Collectible Card Game Checklist & Price Guide - what does that mean? Did Scrye list these titles in some section called non-collectible, despite the very title of the publication being about collectible card games? And of course, because the footnote was added to the initial list, over the years, others have added other titles that they, presumably, consider notable. Sigh. Initial list was created by @Leitmotiv. In 2011 @Neelix added Boy Crazy (game), same year an IP added Havic: The Bothering, in 2016 an IP added Dark Mages, and in @Lenoxus added KeyForge, nobody bothered to add references. I am afraid this entire section should be nuked as it is WP:OR (a list of similar things, with no reliable source, and with too vague concept - "games that appear similar to CCGs". How about Quarriors! or Roll for the Galaxy (dice collectible games)? And how about Pirates Constructible Strategy Game, in which you bought booster packs to assemble miniatures? Sigh). We need a proper definition that is not WP:OR to rescue this. (See also: List of collectible miniatures games... which fits perfectly our definition of "catch-all category for those games that appear similar to CCGs but don't meet the strict definition"). Sigh again. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:20, 11 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Scrye Guide is available at IA (https://archive.org/details/scryecollectible0000mill_b5b4_2ed). Cited page 688 has "Appendix G: Notable almost-were CCGs" (some interesting trivia there). The page numbers that should be cited instead is the range 687-688, "Appendix F: Notable non-collectible games" which has the following note that I'll reproduce fully since it is relevant: "there are many games which are occasionally assumed to be 'collectible card games', which do not meet our definition or any of the categories on the previous pages. We acknoweldge a sampling here, as well as a selection of other products directly inspireed by CCGs, such as collectible dice and disk games". They list: Age of Heroes, Battlecards, Boy Crazy, Brawl, ChronX, DragonElves, Emmerlaus: Duel of Mages, Express Chess, Fluxx, Havic: The Bothering, Mystick, Quest for the Faysylwood, Rumble Robots, Shadow Raven and Zoon. Those perhaps could be retained. Everything else is OR, that includes three titles added by @Leitmotiv (two in 2013, in the same edit summary claiming that the content is referenced to the source, and one later in 2017, with no source): The Base Ball Card Game (Allegheny) (1904), Chez Geek (Steve Jackson Games) (1999), Strat-O-Matic Baseball (1961). Please note that adding content falsely claiming it is referenced is hardly good practices - this is OR smuggling, sigh. That said, I am well aware that 10 years ago our standards were different, and many folks, myself included, did not understood the rules or were not aware of them, so I am just saying - let's be careful. In a short while I'll remove all entries from that section that cannot be referenced to RS. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Other lists of collectible games

We have List of collectible miniatures games and List of digital collectible card games. Scryed guide cited above has Appendix E: Other games (p. 685-686) that lists games in which players collect not cards, but dice (collectible dice game, redirects to List_of_dice_games#Collectible_dice_games for now), disks (collectible disk game - no article at present), etc. It lists the following titles: Chaos Progenitus (dice), Diskwars (disks...?), Doomtown: Range Wars (not clear what is collectible here), Dragon Dice, Legend of Five Rings Diskwars, Star Trek Collectible Dice Game, and Stratego Legends, in which apparently one collected "pieces with stickers" and "an extra plastick piece", available in boosters that had 15 pieces in them... I guess this could be mentioned in a section called others, with dice game list linked to? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]