Help talk:Your first article

Major overhaul of this page

Hello! For the past little while a bunch of people have been working on a draft of an update to this page. Please take a look/suggest improvements/leave feedback/etc. at your convenience. Thank you so much, HouseBlaster^talk 00:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

@HouseBlaster I would suggest using less "hand-holding" language and more "how this should be done" language (like in documentations for programming languages). This respects the competence of the reader and improve their perception of our competence as well. Also, it is helpful to give a more detailed explanation on the reasons why we have these criteria in the first place. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 15:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Welp: Your forked article

Seems two teams have been labouring in ignorance of one another, and now the RfC is closed. We've got H:YFA on the one hand, and User:Houseblaster/YFA draft on the other. Last synced 1 July, after I made the same mistake.

So, stet, merge, overwrite? Notifying editors who have touched either page during July:
@Mathglot, Tenryuu, Houseblaster, Rich Smith, S0091, Slgrandson, WhatamIdoing, Hyphenation expert, Lettherebedarklight, CopperyMarrow15, Ganguma, CactiStaccingCrane, Ianmacm, Edward-Woodrow, Paine Ellsworth, OutsideNormality, and Zinnober9:

Apologies to all involved for the notification. Folly Mox (talk) 03:21, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

No merge, the draft at User:Houseblaster/YFA draft has a completely different logic. Choose one or the other, and go from there, following the logic of the chosen design. Mathglot (talk) 05:13, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Hmm no response either 🙃 User:CactiStaccingCrane, you expressed doubt about the new draft in the section immediately prior, so repinging you individually, but this question is directed at everyone.

How do people feel about a round robin move? Move the current help page to Help:Article creation basics or Help:Article creation fundamentals or something, and move User:Houseblaster/YFA draft to this title? That way we keep the thorough explanation for people who want something in between "I've never logged in before today but I'm tryna create an article first thing" and "here's Category:Wikipedia policies and guidelines; good luck!", but also provide a thing for the day zero raw newcomers. Folly Mox (talk) 04:25, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I was kinda surprised about the crickets, too. Honestly, I think this draft beats the hell out of the existing YFA, and I would certainly support such a move, but probably we need a more central venue to publish or advertise it in . You could start... I was gonna say, you could start an RM (Requested Move), but that usually implies only a title change with no major change of content, and this isn't that at all. So, maybe an Rfc? Mathglot (talk) 04:38, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Sorry! I got the ping but had other messages as well and forgot about this one. What do you think about posting something at WP:Village pump (proposals) first to request input/feedback along with WT:Teahouse? Given its importance, I would rather it go through some more vetting before a formal RfC. Also Cullen328 just posted some suggestions at User talk:Houseblaster/YFA draft. S0091 (talk) 15:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

YFA draft revisited

It looks like the discussion has unfortunately gone stale, but I agree with the above that User:Houseblaster/YFA draft is a major improvement over the current version, even if it has some rough edges. Is there still interest in moving it here? This is an information page not a policy or a guideline, so I don't think a full-blown RfC is necessary: consensus on this talk page that it is an improvement would suffice. @HouseBlaster, Folly Mox, Mathglot, S0091, and CactiStaccingCrane: – Joe (talk) 08:26, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, it really is, and it deserves another look and serious consideration. And, yes, there is interest. Thanks for reigniting it. Mathglot (talk) 08:42, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

I really dropped the ball on this one. I have the RFC statement and initial support !vote in my notes app, dated 22 August 2023. I don't remember why I never posted it to VPR, although I was helping a friend move that week, and moved house myself the following week.

Irrelevant background details aside, and with the declaration that I made 67 edits to that page and 30 to this one, yes please let's get the streamlined version in front of newcomers.

Given how frequently newcomers are provided links to Help:Your first article, I was rather surprised last year when not many people seemed to care what it says, but I imagine it's akin to WP:UPPERCASE (kinda how newcomers editing with the Visual Editor are often linked to WP:REFB instead of WP:REFVISUAL, because it's what people are used to linking newcomers to).

I evidently proposed a round-robin move in the previous thread, which I still prefer as first choice, to preserve the current contents of this information page, but the draft in userspace should be moved to this title. Folly Mox (talk) 09:19, 26 July 2024 (UTC)